I did some math today and I'm seriosly pissed as to what I have discovered. It looks like I can sell off the V8 stuff and put a 13b-t in my car for a lot less money than I have in the V8. I priced out what I could sell the V8 stuff for and I come to about $2000 with all the accesories and misc. stuff. Mike is working on a price list for me as to what a 13b-t would cost, but from what I can gather, it's considerable less than $2000. On top of it being cheaper, I don't have to fabricate the front end to make the oil pan clear the new X-member. Also, it'll probably weigh 100-150lbs less.
If I build the V8 it's still going to cost me another $300-600 on top of what I already have in the car because I need new pistons, valve springs, and the machiene work involved, in addition to a new oil pump and harmonic damper. Clearly the smart choice here is to build the rotory motor, but I feel like that would be quiting. On top of that, the car just wouldn't be the same. Granted it would probably be faster, but still not the same. Of course, the odds of me ever finishing the V8 are getting smaller and smaller as this project unfolds. I just feel like removing the V8 would be like killing my cars soul.
So, what are your thoughts;
1. Keep the V8 and struggle through the car, because let's face it, my car just isn't the same without the 5.0.
2. Scrap the V8 and go with the rotory.
3. Cheat hard core, swap back the FB suspension, do a ghetto rebuild on the V8, and just get it finished.
4. Sell everything, buy something else. Include suggestions.
Death to the V8?
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darkducati
- Purple Drank
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icantdrift
- Salsa Rodeo
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Either way you decide its still not going to be cheap. I really love the feel of my car w/ a rotary, I enjoy the feeling of a turbo even more. But to install the rotary back into your car is not going to be that cheap, unless you can come across some good used parts. To find a decent used Jap engine its going to run roughly around a 1K w/ a TII trans. So that would leave you w/ about a 1K remaining. then add in costs for custom drive shaft, stand alone efi , plus oil cooler, exhaust, intercooler piping ,etc... the list is long of all the little things.
You saw my FOERST setup, that was about as low buck as it gets, acutally both setups are very low buck. We did that turbo conversion to a stock se 13b for around 1600 w/ computer. That put me at 230whp 193 wtq on 6lbs. The engine i have now was about 2k to install, i had to buy a light weight flywheel so i could run the smaller clutch(i had just bought weeks before i popped my motor) because i couldn't really budget in doing a TII trans conerversion. That would be another 400.00 for a good clutch and stock TII fly or buy a lightweight fly for 500 new, I picked one up used for cheap. Down fall is weaker trans. that you will use. But this engine combo is very very torquie, I made a solid 200wtq from just under 3500rpm to 6000rpm, and 240whp all on 8lbs. You know in are light weight cars that is more than enough power.
You saw my FOERST setup, that was about as low buck as it gets, acutally both setups are very low buck. We did that turbo conversion to a stock se 13b for around 1600 w/ computer. That put me at 230whp 193 wtq on 6lbs. The engine i have now was about 2k to install, i had to buy a light weight flywheel so i could run the smaller clutch(i had just bought weeks before i popped my motor) because i couldn't really budget in doing a TII trans conerversion. That would be another 400.00 for a good clutch and stock TII fly or buy a lightweight fly for 500 new, I picked one up used for cheap. Down fall is weaker trans. that you will use. But this engine combo is very very torquie, I made a solid 200wtq from just under 3500rpm to 6000rpm, and 240whp all on 8lbs. You know in are light weight cars that is more than enough power.
Ok. just for the sake of brainstorming about it, I'll lay out the proposed 13b-t project as best I understand it since I have about 3 people that will be helping out.
I have access to a free 13b NA, and I should be able to get a 13b-t to salvage parts from. Probably one more motor will finish me off and I should have the big parts. Then comes the port work, I have a friend that has ported many 13b's and does a good job. Seals, rebuild, all that good stuff. Turbo is still up in the air but either a t3/t4 or a T04 looks to be the way I'd go. Aluminum rad and oil cooler I already have from my IT car, along with an MSD and the FC suspension. I'd need a custom driveshaft (which I'd also need for the new V8 since I changed the rear end) and the intercooler will probably be two TII cores welded together. The fuel managment is still undecided but I'd rather not re-wire the car. I will still need a clutch setup, along with the piping and such. I have tons of left over parts around including a Holley fuel pump from the IT car, but I don't know if it'll keep up with the turbo since it came off an NA racer.
The more math I do the more it looks like this will be about the same either way. If I can get a cheaper EMU and maybe build my own manifold, then the 13b is definatly going to be the better choice, but it's hard to say right now. I know that with $600-800 more in my 302 I'm looking at a solid 300-320 whp. The 13b-t I'm working on will be in the 300whp range or I won't consider it. If I'm only going to squeaqe 240whp out of this project then I'll stick with the V8, hence the dellema.
We just built a 13b-t for our club that should put down 250whp but we're still running the stock turbo. Of course the motor, car, tranny, etc plus 15" Hoosiers and 15" rims has so far has only cost us $1000. We still have $1000 more to add to the budget. We're thinking clutch, nitrous, and DR's for the drag, but our $2005 challenge car is another discussion for another post.
I have access to a free 13b NA, and I should be able to get a 13b-t to salvage parts from. Probably one more motor will finish me off and I should have the big parts. Then comes the port work, I have a friend that has ported many 13b's and does a good job. Seals, rebuild, all that good stuff. Turbo is still up in the air but either a t3/t4 or a T04 looks to be the way I'd go. Aluminum rad and oil cooler I already have from my IT car, along with an MSD and the FC suspension. I'd need a custom driveshaft (which I'd also need for the new V8 since I changed the rear end) and the intercooler will probably be two TII cores welded together. The fuel managment is still undecided but I'd rather not re-wire the car. I will still need a clutch setup, along with the piping and such. I have tons of left over parts around including a Holley fuel pump from the IT car, but I don't know if it'll keep up with the turbo since it came off an NA racer.
The more math I do the more it looks like this will be about the same either way. If I can get a cheaper EMU and maybe build my own manifold, then the 13b is definatly going to be the better choice, but it's hard to say right now. I know that with $600-800 more in my 302 I'm looking at a solid 300-320 whp. The 13b-t I'm working on will be in the 300whp range or I won't consider it. If I'm only going to squeaqe 240whp out of this project then I'll stick with the V8, hence the dellema.
We just built a 13b-t for our club that should put down 250whp but we're still running the stock turbo. Of course the motor, car, tranny, etc plus 15" Hoosiers and 15" rims has so far has only cost us $1000. We still have $1000 more to add to the budget. We're thinking clutch, nitrous, and DR's for the drag, but our $2005 challenge car is another discussion for another post.
You over thinking the rotary just a little, the best way to do it is to keep it simple. I would buy a good j-spec engine, leave it the way it is. It should come w/ turbo intercooler, intake everything. Leave the ports alone its a turbo car, the low end torque w/ stock ports is great for drifting. So 1k you have 13b-T with trans. If you could find a 12a-t dist. you could by-pass buying a fuel and ign. computer, just get fuel only for about 600. Buy a nice ACT clutch roughly 400.00. If i was you i would stay away from building n/a's into turbo motors. the exhaust housing just don't take so well to the heat, you might endup blowing the motor. Rotaries are great fun for drifting, just incase you forget to lift your foot you can't really over rev them. Remember one thing Keep it Simple, I know its hard for you to do, seeing how you are re-engineering your car. Plus Fuel injection is so much easier to deal w/ than turbo carbs.
Yeah, that's one way to go however I hesitate to install a JDM rotary motor considering there's no way to determin how they have been kept. I went that route with my B16 and considering that I've seen honda motors that still have the origional oil after 35,000 miles, I'd be scared to think about the damage that could be done to a 13b. I would consider buying a JDM 13b-t to rebuild because it would be such a good core, but that definatly doens't fit into my budget. Not to mention the motor you just described definatly doesn't fit into the 300whp for $2000 budget.
You have hit apon a winner though. I do over engineer things, but that's because I'm picky and lets face it, a 13b-t FB isn't anything special. I have to find someway to make it mine, and I have to justify going with the 13b over the 300+whp V8, which means a nearly stock 13b-t simply won't do. So, welcome to my dilema.
You have hit apon a winner though. I do over engineer things, but that's because I'm picky and lets face it, a 13b-t FB isn't anything special. I have to find someway to make it mine, and I have to justify going with the 13b over the 300+whp V8, which means a nearly stock 13b-t simply won't do. So, welcome to my dilema.