Battery talk. Your opinion is sought.

[n2hifi]

up until recently i had been using the SVR glass mat battery in my 240, being a car audio guy/installer i understand the benefits to using a deep cycle battery for use in my drift car.

My reasoning is that my car is not a daily driver and tends to sit in between events and outings, if you let a conventional battery die just once to where it needs a jump , this will cause a dead cell which will cause drains and plague you with issues that you can't figure out till you give up and buy a new battery. Dry cell deep cycle batteries are designed for that style of application, they just respond better to being drained and recharged multiple times. Now getting the general public to understand this is harder then you would think.

I think that if you promote the battery to the public so they can understand that a lighter SEALED battery that can be mounted in any position needed, that will out last a conventional battery by X amount of usage and that a performance battery offers more starting power and more off key available voltage/current for those people who need to leave their cooling fans on while the car is off ... these things are what most people want or need from the battery in their cars


but probley more honest is the fact that when people build drift cars the battery is their least concern .. if the cars starts and runs thats all most care about

just my opinion

[Midtenn]

I think a certain Miata auto-xer with a National Trophy needs a sponsor or two...

Dan Pedroza?

Sure, Dan Pedroza is a really cool guy.

[Rhoad Racing]

Great input guys!

Before I reply to everyone I have some good news. Talked to my boss earlier this afternoon. He's giving me approval to find/submit sponsorship proposals for several drifters and several road racers. Andy Sapp has already been approved and will probably be receiving a S680 pending more info. Other possibles may include JR and Sw00n J00n Maeng. If all goes well a couple more grassroots guys will end up on that list.

Chris,

If your boss wants to sell batteries for serious racing applications, they need to go ahead and put the word out that they are serious about gaining market share. One example can be done by offering the product for a much lower price for a limited amount of time ....

...........

Anyways.. I have a lot more to say but consulting is worth something especially when I am unemployed.

Hope you understand.

Understand completely He certainly understands the power of voice. That power is why they have been so successful in drag racing and circle track. The sponsorships I mentioned above will be the FOERST step to make the same happen in our market. But again, if we/you dont find the batteries or whatever to be beneficial, too expensive, whatever, then he'll know to back out and move on to something else (like rock crawling). However, from what Ive read thus far, there is definitely a need/want for a battery similar to the ones XS makes which I'll get into more detail below.

I want a battery that I don't have to relocate to the trunk to run a fmic and I still want a bumping stereo. Just make a side by side comparing braille to XS. I know I'd like to hear the facts.

See below.

One thing you could possibly do is market batteries for specific applications. What I mean by that is 90% of the S chassis owners out there with a FMIC probably have the same amount of room next to the cold pipe for a small battery. In fact, with the way most everything is becoming carbon-copied in the aftermarket, Id be willing to bet most of those same cars have very close to the same layout in piping entirely. Why not market a battery that specifically fits these cars? I have seen some people do this (FRSport maybe), but not too many. You could maybe even develop a tie down system and battery combo that would be compatible with most FMIC kits, and pass a tech inspection from SCCA/FD. A lot of people look for ease of installation when buying new parts and that could be a huge selling point.

Production cost would sky rocket.

Most of us use little 1991 Miata batteries next to the cold pipe. So as long as it's around that size...

See below

I think XS should advertise in S3 .

Seriously though, if you guys even want us to run a product release in our new parts section, I'll hook it up for the next issue. And in the event you guys do have some sort of marketing budget to work with, you know I'll hook that up too.

These guys dont really do traditional advertising. Although I did let them know they one of their competitors had advertising in S3. Don't worry.... Im trying to work S3 in too. LOL.

for drifters i would push towards easy of use, price, and a contingency program like the tire companies use.
for road race i would push safety, durability, customer service, and a contingency program like the tire companies use.

contingency programs offer a way to make your product more appealing without any money lost on the sale. it is also up to the driver to claim their prize so there is a chance that you won't have to pay out at all and it would give you a chance to give away product instead of money. you also get a chance to attach your name to winners.


also b2b is a way huger market that b2c. if you really want to gain some market share you need to find a way to attract aftermarket retailers.


funny story about road racing. in many classes you have to run an alternator. well there is no rule if you sling a belt and suddenly have no alternator taking up precious horsepower. some racers would buy a huge battery so they could use it as a weight ballast and be able to run the race without an alternator.

This is the one thing I forgot to mention to Ken today when I talked to him about it. Although Im almost positive that he has a contingency program in place for drag racing and circle track. Implementing this in our market would be very beneficial IMO. Ill probably talk to him again tomorrow and I'll bring it up.

As for b2b, that is their main source of income right now. For someone to buy an XS battery they will have to find a supplier which is kinda pain in the ass to be honest. Hopefully the new website for XS will help remedy that problem.
I think accessibility could become a problem with us and others in our market.

...... alternator taking up precious horsepower. some racers would buy a huge battery so they could use it as a weight ballast and be able to run the race without an alternator.

Here's something I learned from the big bossman today about alternators. When you remove the belt from the Alt you free up a little bit of hp. But in drag racing and drifting we spend a great deal of time at redline or very close to it. At this point its very hard to make additional power and by not having your Alt hooked up (or having a shitty one) you are ultimately starving your ignition system, fuel pump, and other vital components of ample power. Thus hindering your power output on the top end. So you'll create a few more hp on the bottom of the power band but will lose it on the top. And since thats where we spend most of our time it wouldn't be beneficial.
*thats how I understand it anyway*

Awesome advice uptop, I know there's a few Drifter's in STL that purchase Motorcycle battery's because they are much much lighter and fit in with any motor swap they do, the big down side that most don't seem to care about is the fact that the battery is dead just about every time they go to start the car. Plus it's cheaper to buy. Just throwing that in there.

See below

i have one thing to say make battery with high cca and small. cause all the small batts only get one or 2 good cranks out of my car then i have to roll start it.

See below.

up until recently i had been using the SVR glass mat battery in my 240, being a car audio guy/installer i understand the benefits to using a deep cycle battery for use in my drift car.

My reasoning is that my car is not a daily driver and tends to sit in between events and outings, if you let a conventional battery die just once to where it needs a jump , this will cause a dead cell which will cause drains and plague you with issues that you can't figure out till you give up and buy a new battery. Dry cell deep cycle batteries are designed for that style of application, they just respond better to being drained and recharged multiple times. Now getting the general public to understand this is harder then you would think.

I think that if you promote the battery to the public so they can understand that a lighter SEALED battery that can be mounted in any position needed, that will out last a conventional battery by X amount of usage and that a performance battery offers more starting power and more off key available voltage/current for those people who need to leave their cooling fans on while the car is off ... these things are what most people want or need from the battery in their cars


but probley more honest is the fact that when people build drift cars the battery is their least concern .. if the cars starts and runs thats all most care about

just my opinion

^ ^ ^ That is precisely what we are trying achieve. And the battery Im about to mention does exactly that and more.



*** BELOW ***
Thanks again for the input guys. Its not only allowing me to learn more but give back (via sponsorships) in return.
So some of you guys mentioned what you would like to see in a battery. I took what you all said and relayed it to my boss this afternoon. He immediately recommended the S680 battery that I posted a pic of up top. It would fit our needs perfectly.

This isn't a sales pitch btw. Just saying that if there is a market like you guys are implying then we have at least one thing to support it.

Here's some quick specs on it:
Weight Lbs. - 17.16
Length - 7.28 in
Width - 3.19 in
Height - 6.67 in

MAX Amps - 1000
RC - 30
CA - 300 (Matt: this 300

So in Byron's case, the S680 is significantly smaller in size and can be mounted on its side, backwards, at an angle... doesnt matter. But the coolest part about this battery is that you can shoot the damn thing with a .45 gun, put it back in the car and not miss a beat. It doesn't leak b/c its not a flooded battery, thus no liquid or acid. Durability?.... check.
* I"ll put more info about Braille where you can find it *

As for Matt, he wants something small, lightweight and with good cold cranking amps. The cranking amps on the 680 is 300. Those 300amps are good for a continues 30 seconds at 32*F. If thats not good enough, the battery up is only $20 more (S975)

Same applies to Alex and Zach's suggestion about using other types of batteries. 680 is small, lightweight and wont run out of juice.

But here's the best part.... the cost. $109 and that includes the 2-way terminals and the metal sleeve around the battery and this battery tie down

[P.Haire]

i was talking about 4 cyl motors with mechanical fuel pumps. i'm sure with all the electronics and junk in race cars now there is no chance of running like that.

[n2hifi]

But here's the best part.... the cost. $109 and that includes the 2-way terminals and the metal sleeve around the battery and this battery tie down

okay here comes the bus and i am throwing you in front of it:

What makes your specific battery better then:
-Odyssey s680 which is the same style and approx size but advertises more CCA's
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680series.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-Hawker sla genesis
http://www.batteryweb.com/hawkersla-det ... el=genesis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-kenetic 600 which visually appears to be the same style also
http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/produc ... 1&P=KHC600" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

then there is the svr,stinger and a cpl other batteries all the same style and look as the one your saying is better or atleast comparable



and not trying to hate just seeing if there is a difference and just for general debate purposes : )

[Mischif]

I think a certain Miata auto-xer with a National Trophy needs a sponsor or two...

Dan Pedroza?

Sure, Dan Pedroza is a really cool guy.

He makes a traditionally girly car seem awesome and doesn't afraid of anything?

[Rhoad Racing]

But here's the best part.... the cost. $109 and that includes the 2-way terminals and the metal sleeve around the battery and this battery tie down

okay here comes the bus and i am throwing you in front of it:

What makes your specific battery better then:
-Odyssey s680 which is the same style and approx size but advertises more CCA's
http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc680series.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-Hawker sla genesis
http://www.batteryweb.com/hawkersla-det ... el=genesis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-kenetic 600 which visually appears to be the same style also
http://www.kinetikaudio.com/2009/produc ... 1&P=KHC600" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

then there is the svr,stinger and a cpl other batteries all the same style and look as the one your saying is better or atleast comparable



and not trying to hate just seeing if there is a difference and just for general debate purposes : )

Its all good man

Sorry for the delayed response, but here it is:

One thing to consider when comparing XS Power to many other battery manufacturers, is that typically you are comparing an actual manufacturer (XS Power) to battery re-labelers. From the list provided Odyssey is the only other “manufacturer” listed. Being involved in the actual design and manufacturing of the product gives XS a huge advantage on the field. Add to that their many years of experience and knowledge of the race and performance markets and you end up with a products purpose built for this market. Now to the comparisons…

XS Power vs. Odyssey: Look closely at their specifications… the CA rating (amperage produced at 32F for 30sec) on the PC680 is 300A. Ours is conservatively rated at 310CA (recently revised specifications). Of course ours matches with Odysseys 5 second hot rating of 680A too as is indicated by our part number S680. But how important is this spec really? I mean how often do you see a car that takes 30 seconds to turn over… in cold weather or not??? So what is important? The Ah capacity? Ah is the number of amps a battery can produce over a 20 hour period before dropping to 10.5V. For example, our 20Ah 680 model, can produce 1A for 20 hours… 1A x 20hrs = 20Ah. This tells us nothing about how the battery will perform for starting and daily use. This gives us a general idea about the battery’s overall size or capacity… we already know we want small, compact and light weight… so as long as it is big enough to reliably crank the car that’s all that matters right? Speaking of reliability… all 12V XS Power batteries come with a 3 year free replacement warranty. No core charges, no pro-rating… you have a problem and a receipt, you get a new battery! Now concerning price… pretty much everywhere I’ve looked XS Power comes in just under Odyssey… you just have to make sure you’re comparing the right models. Make sure to check for items that are included like steel case, terminals, hold downs, etc.

As for Kinetik you will NOT likely see CA ratings published for that battery, (because they are very low) nor will you see protective steel cases or hold downs. Although the housing shape/looks are very similar, the internal construction and design are very different. The cranking and instantaneous power of this type of battery is going to be very low, and in fact the company itself states that this battery is not meant for starting applications.

Stinger is a re-labeled Odyssey… good quality batteries with added cost for a prettier label.

Simply put, XS have gone to great lengths to test and compare themselves to nearly everyone in the market… not just in the performance industry, but in audio, marine, and industrial to name a few, and believe our product will stand above the rest in overall quality and performance.

[mynameismike]

Chris, I was flipping through a doriten with Shawn the other day and saw they had aftermarket alternators in the drifting world of japan, they put out more ampage than an average alternator (I think like 100~150 watts? I dunno) and I think that would be awesome, now as far as marking to be better would be tricky but if you can pull it off that would be good.


I think a good battery and alternator are important. They showed graphs and comparisons from stock to aftermarket, doing something like that would help.

[Greg]

I think a certain Miata auto-xer with a National Trophy needs a sponsor or two...

Dan Pedroza?

Sure, Dan Pedroza is a really cool guy.

lol it was a joke.

[Greg]

most likely 100-150 "amps" Mike.

I would rather have a nice alternator personally, than a battery. JMO

[mynameismike]

most likely 100-150 "amps" Mike.

I would rather have a nice alternator personally, than a battery. JMO

Amps. I was thinking back to the future with 1.21 jigawatts

[Greg]

oh noes 88mph

[jsquared]

Do you guys make motorcycle batteries also?

[revel]

i think matt is looking for something more in the over 600CCAs area. matt correct me if i am wrong.

[matts13]

i think matt is looking for something more in the over 600CCAs area. matt correct me if i am wrong.

the odyssey i use only has like 235cca. send me the info size wise on that bigger batt chris thanks!